LWLies pays a visit to our new favourite director, Tom McCarthy. The Visitor is out on July 4.
LWLies: When you’ve got your own movie to promote and you’re juggling your acting gigs around that, do you start to feel the pinch?
McCarthy: Right now I do just because the last six or seven weeks have been particularly intense. The downside of that, well, the downside for me really is that it’s not like we’re throwing millions of dollars at television ads.
LWLies: How tough is it to take you mind out of your own movie, which you must know back to front, and then breeze into somebody else’s where your relationship with the material must be completely different?
McCarthy: Well, honestly, that’s why I keep acting – I love acting because you show up on set and you’re there to do one thing. The film I’m doing right now is the new Tony Gilroy movie, and it’s a really great script, and it’s almost like a nice break from what I’m doing right now. As much as I love the movie I’ve made, I’m very proud of it and I want it to do well, it’s hard talking about it again and again and again and again. I feel like I don’t have too much to say after a while. So you get to the set and you feel like you can just focus on the acting job and get a break.
LWLies: Has being a director yourself changed either your attitude towards or relationship with the other directors that you work with? Do you find yourself more tolerant or understanding or attuned to what they’re doing?
McCarthy: Yeah, I think a little bit of everything. It’s probably informed my work as an actor – when you sit in an editing room and watch actors perform again and again and again, a lot of that is about reacting to complex emotions. And then on the other side of course there aren’t that many directors out there, and I think when you’re on a set with a director, you have an immediate rapport. You know, I’ve been doing it a while now and it’s just something that you kinda share, an unspoken thing where you have somebody to talk to about it a bit. It’s a shared experience but not necessarily a common one.
LWLies: When you directed The Station Agent was there anything you experienced there as a director that had you slapping your forehead thinking, ‘I can’t believe I used to do this as an actor!’
McCarthy: There wasn’t anything, sort of, professionally… The only thing professionally was just being ready. Actors are given a lot of latitude on the set, really everyone caters for you because it’s the sort of job where, you know, without the actor doing a good job all the work is for nothing, and so there is that built in structure of keeping the actor in a positive, relaxed place – don’t let the actor have to deal with it. But that said, when it’s time to go the actor better be ready, like, he literally better be on set because we’re not waiting. And that’s something that sometimes as an actor, you have to be, like, come on, we have a pretty good job. The other thing, more technically in terms of the craft, is just not pushing, not trying to do too much. Being relaxed on set, trusting the work, and I think especially young actors sometimes have the tendency to want to do more. But if you watch more experienced actors, like this movie I’m doing now I watch Tom Wilkinson work and the guy is just so effortless, I just sit back and watch him. And it’s the same with Richard Jenkins in The Visitor. Watch Richard’s work and he’s just so present it almost seems like he’s not, you know, he’s not pushing too much.
LWLies: As a writer, you don’t give yourself any meaty parts in your own films. How come?
McCarthy: You know, ultimately, the straight answer is that I don’t do it because I think it’s too much for me personally. Writing and directing is a lot of different jobs to do, and honestly I couldn’t imagine doing those things and then jumping up on the other side of the camera. I don’t see that there’s any need for it. I get my fix, especially as I have more success with my roles as an actor, I get it on other films, and I just don’t feel the need to insert myself in that sort of situation. Maybe there will come a time when I think of a role or something and I’m like, ‘Oh, perfect, I can do it effortlessly, I’m more comfortable behind the camera.’ But I really like working with actors and being on that other side. And I think also being a writer, I’m constantly tinkering a little bit, so it’s not just about the responsibilities I have as a director on the set, I am also working as a writer. And you know when you asked me earlier about acting and I brought up the word ‘relaxed’, and I think it’s tough to relax when you’re writing and directing, you know? Your mind and your body is really racing and you’re exhausted half way through the movie, so to then add to that just doesn’t make any sense.
LWLies: It’s interesting that you say you like to work with actors – do you, as an actor, work with many directors who aren’t like that? Who aren’t good with people? Wouldn’t they be in the wrong job?
McCarthy: It’s an interesting point of view – I think there are some directors who’ve maybe come right out of film school or come out of writing that aren’t that comfortable conversing, and maybe that stems from the fact that they haven’t done it a lot, therefore they’re not very proficient at communicating with actors, and as a result not very comfortable and sort of uptight. You do see that sometimes from directors. They’re not great at using language and communicating with actors in such a way that they’ll have the room to enable the actor to do their best work. You see it again and again. Sometimes it’s very good with actors to stand back and say, ‘Wow, that’s pretty good, I’m amazed.’ I think that’s something I’ve learned, I mean, it’s one advantage I have coming from the world of acting is that I have worked with directors all across the spectrum with different ways of working, and I’ve had the opportunity to sit back and see what is helpful and what’s not; what’s useful for an actor and what is not. And it’s something that actors talk about a lot, right? When we’re on set, someone’ll say, ‘Hey, did you work with that guy? What’s he like? No kidding!’ There’s a lot of that as an actor that I think has kind of helped me find how I want to work.
LWLies: Preparing for this interview, and having been a fan for a while, a saw a picture of you and thought, ‘Shit, that guy!’ Does it bother you that you’re maybe not more high profile, or is it good that the work can speak for itself?
McCarthy: No, I kind of really like that actually. It’s funny because Richard and I have been travelling a lot around the country, and Richard’s kind of an ‘Oh that guy!’ guy too. And there were times of being in airports where people do the double pump of, ‘Oh, that guy’s with that guy!’ And they just couldn’t place us. It was hilarious, it was really, really funny. But, no I think, I just really like it, and I think the reason is, if I was, say, a more famous actor right now I think I would always be judged in line with that, being a director. And I think somehow, because of the timing of my acting career and my directing career, the two have remained very separate. In fact I’ve done many interviews now in the States this time around where I’ve walked into the room and reporters have been like, ‘Oh! Oh! I never put the two together.’ I get that a lot.
LWLies: We’ve had a slew of Iraq War movies, almost al of which have not done very well, but watching The Visitor what’s striking about is that it feels like a true post-9/11 movie. Not explicitly grappling with the politics of America or the city of New York, but absolutely a reaction to the way America is going. Is that something you were deliberately trying to evoke in the writing?
McCarthy: I think so, I think, it’s almost tough to… A tricky part of writing is that I started to write this three years ago, and sometimes you worry about revisionism and creating stories and, ‘Oh, this was my thought then’. So all I can really speak to is that I know for a while there after The Station Agent I knew I should start writing again but I was doing other things – I was acting, I was writing for other people, I was working with some other companies. But ultimately I was very, sort of, I don’t want to use the word blocked because I was able to write, but what was going on in the world was so discouraging to me, the state of our country, the invasion of Iraq, how divided we were after the second election, all these things that were happening just sort of… I wasn’t feeling the need or the passion to sit down and write a screenplay. And I was really just, sort of, I don’t want to use the term ‘disillusioned’ but I think that’s probably what it was, which sounds silly, for a 39-year-old guy to feel disillusioned with his country, it seems like something for a younger person, but I was. The state of the world really just prevented me from getting to work. And slowly through travelling and speaking to people and coming up with the idea of the character of Tarek… Then after developing these characters in the story I visited one of these detention centres, and as soon as I did that I went, ‘Oh, okay, I have a hook here.’ Something that I can go research and write on and explore and I don’t feel like I’m burying my head in the sand. There was a connection to the world around me and to my work, and I felt like I had something to say. So I think that was an interesting ‘in’ for me, but I’ll add that even that angle didn’t come until some time after really living with the characters and the story for a while. So it wasn’t like there was an issue that I saw, it wasn’t like I read an article on the front page of The Times and said, ‘Oh, I have to expose this.’ It was more like I have these characters, it’s a really interesting world, and then it became apparent that to avoid the issue of immigration at some level and what might happen was just irresponsible if not silly. So I think that’s how I came to that story and came to the tone of how they story was introduced.
LWLies: The tone is what I was trying to put my finger on – that sense of fear or apprehension or uncertainty about the future and a change in America.
McCarthy: It’s also, now you mention it, a little bit of an awakening. You know, I know, for instance, that my experience was very similar to Walter Vale. I sort of, like a reporter, was just spending more and more of my time reading anything that I could about immigration, people coming here, their experience, and I stumbled upon this story and thought, ‘I should go check it out, I’ve never been.’ So I found a way to join this organisation that was a church, a social outreach that allowed me to go. But again, I wasn’t, ‘Oh, I’m gonna go write about it,’ it was just, maybe there’s something there. And then when I got there – like Walter when he goes – I was just so displaced by the experience, you know? This is such an odd place, it was just jarring, I guess is the right word. As soon as you walk into what looks like a factory in the middle of nowhere, and I was being led by these people who obviously knew where they were going, suddenly I was in this other place. And it was sort of like the more I experienced, the more people I talked to, the more detainees I spent time with, the more I started to read, the more lawyers, the more social outreach, the more homeland security, it was like, ‘Wow!’ You know, for all the headlines and issues that are being discussed, how many of us have really experienced this? And I know that I would talk to my friends in New York and be like, ‘I’m going…’ ‘Where are you going? What is this? What’s it like?’ Nobody knew about this stuff. It was an awakening to what’s going on around us.
LWLies: Is immigration a hot button issue in the States?
McCarthy: More and more it’s become a national issue, especially in the run up to the election – it’s probably one of the top three or four issues. You know, it’s like, I had an e-mail forwarded to me from my mother because she gets e-mails about the movie from friends and, I have to find it, hold on, it just cracked me up. It says, ‘Hi, saw The Visitor, the room was packed, it was well acted. However, it did not change our minds about illegal aliens. However, I would happily let the actor in the movie stay in the US and apply for citizenship.’ It’s kind of awesome, you know? The way she phrases it, you know? My whole thing is with the term ‘illegal alien’. We use these terms just like in military-speak where they use different words for killing and death to sort of dehumanise them, and I think the term ‘illegal alien’ has a double negative connotation. They’re just dangerous… But it’s funny to me that she can say that and then say… It’s almost in effect what she’s saying is, ‘The one person I know, Tarek, he can stay.’ It’s a sign of what is going on in our country, which is that many times all these things do get distilled down to us and them and things become wildly politicised – they’re not dealing with the humanity. I think that’s probably why people on both sides of the issue here in this country by and large have responded to the movie because I don’t think I’m stressing one political side or the other. I’m just saying let’s remind ourselves of the humanity. If you think about it, the immigration issue doesn’t come up until about 40 or 45 minutes into the movie, and by that time you’ve had the opportunity to really get to know these characters and live with them and get to experience, whether it’s Tarek’s or Walter’s, share their experience. So I think that’s what’s maybe a little bit different about this as opposed to some of the war movies or some of the other political post-9/11 films.
LWLies: One of the things that The Visitor shares with The Station Agent is that it’s about a loner being drawn out of himself by unlikely friendships. Is that something that’s personal to you?
McCarthy: I don’t know why. Yes it is.
LWLies: At the risk of doing some ham-fisted psychoanalysis.
McCarthy: I know, right? You wouldn’t be the first. My editor did it to me first of all. But no, I think probably what’s more important to me is I think ultimately I’m truly an optimist. I think that I do have a lot of belief in connection, especially human connection and I think that says a lot about what’s going on. For any of us who have travelled to other countries that we read in our headlines about, and then you go there and meet these people and they’re extraordinary. I think that’s probably what I’m most focussed on – starting with people who are a bit more disconnected. But The Station Agent was a little different because everyone was sort of disconnected, it wasn’t just Finn. Here we’re dealing with Tarek and Zeinab who are really a proper couple so it’s a little bit different, but I do think that the idea of community and extended family is something I’ve always found interesting.
LWLies: There’s a new generation of actor-directors emerging at the moment. Do you feel like a part of that, and do you feel that, as a group, you have something relevant to say?
McCarthy: I don’t know. I can’t tell because I do think in every generation - if you go back to the ’60s, the ’70s and the ’80s and you look at actors who made the transition to directors, I think there are always some who are able to do it and some who are more successful. I think a lot of actors experiment with it and then don’t actually pursue it. But it’s all just an extension of storytelling. I do think it’s exciting; I feel like, ‘Why not?’ I just worked with Gael on a movie and we spent a lot of time talking about it – it’s such a wonderful extension of what we do that to take it to the next level is, again, it sort of makes for a more complete experience than just to continue acting. You get more insight into it – the way you communicate.
LWLies: It feels like the time is ready for a bit of a changing of the guard.
McCarthy: Yeah, that’s always been the case. You look at those older guys – I worked with Clint a couple of years ago on Flags of our Fathers and you’ve gotta have a lot of respect for that guy. Really, the guy has done so much, worked on so many levels it’s just amazing. Bit I think it’s probably just nature and we do represent a new era and I think… I’ve been really encouraged by American cinema in the last year or two – I think last year was a really exciting year. And that gets me excited because I do sense it, you know? I do sense… I was talking to Julian Schnabel about this at a screening the other day, and I just loved his movie, I thought The Diving Bell and the Butterfly was without a doubt one of my favourite movies, it’s brilliant. And you can kind of sense people feeding off each other, you know what I mean? People are getting excited about it and going, ‘Okay, he’s gonna raise the bar, I’m gonna raise the bar.’ And those are the periods that great cinema comes out of. I love being mentioned in a group of directors coming out of our country who are tying to do something new. Whether it’s something really large and really exciting or something small. It does feel like a cool place and time right now.
